Deconstructing a negative comment
By Elizabeth Prata
I receive many encouraging comments after I post something or put up a podcast. One of the type of posts I write are discernment posts. I receive comments on those, some encouraging and some not so encouraging.
I don’t mind that, IF the comment is one where the commenter is trying to reason with me through the scriptures. That doesn’t happen much. Sadly.
People lack discernment to a greater and greater degree, I notice. If they follow a certain false teacher whom I have written about, they do all sorts of gymnastics to defend that false teacher instead of being more interested in defending Jesus and asking why I believe these things are so. (Acts 17:11).
They also seem to have a template of Bible phrases they throw into the discussion, out of context or used in a twisted way, of course.
One such comment came to me a short while ago. In it, I see almost ALL of the tropes and clichés the undiscerning use to rebut a thoughtful essay containing scriptures. This one came in after I re-published my Bullet Points on Why Joyce Meyer is a False Teacher.
I want to go through it and show why it was not a reasonable comment, in fact, quite ignorant, biblically speaking. My purpose is so you, too, can rebut, or at least see why this kind of comment is not appropriate for a Christian. The Commenter is in red. My answer is underneath.
Some people think they are doing “good” by trying to “warn people” by calling out preachers and pastors
The quotes around the words good and warn people are called “scare quotes”. It’s a journalistic technique to disparage what someone has said, or to show disdain. The word ‘trying’ is also a snide put-down. Christians discuss things charitably. They should not be haughty.
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1 Peter 1:15 KJV.
Of course a biblically aware Christian knows that the New Testament urges believers to be vigilant against false teachers, which are warned about to us in every NT book except Philemon. We are not only told to beware, but to warn others. This isn’t optional. They are commands. So yes, it IS doing good by warning others. Why would someone think it’s bad to warn a believer they are about to be devoured?
but they fail to take the plank out of their own eye.
This is part of a verse, taken out of context. The full passage is in Matthew 7:1-5. It is about the WAY we judge, and not to do it hypocritically, but righteously.
It is also an uncharitable assumption. Charity and grace in conversation is important. A charitable assumption would be to assume that the author has already prayed and worked to take the plank out, so as not to be hypocritical.
If the commenter is concerned about me the author writing hypocritically, she should private message me, to ask what steps I’d taken to avoid hypocrisy. Or even better, assume in charity that I’ve already taken those steps.
If everyone said everything perfectly and did everything perfectly there would have been no need for Jesus.
This is a common way for people to diminish the importance of discernment. It’s a trope, the “Nobody’s perfect” cliché.
We are not talking about ‘perfection’ when we remark about false doctrine. We are talking about false doctrine, which kills. We are talking about false teachers who bring false doctrine, who are goats. Goats have an agenda, and that agenda is to destroy you and me. Their goal is to cause divisions, create obstacles, and to deceive. (Romans 16:17-18). Their goal is to make you captive. (Colossians 2:8). That’s more than an ‘Oopsie, I misspoke.”
We are not sinners anymore Joyce [Meyer] is right about that. We are saints who will still commit sins and that’s the difference. To God we are reborn and not considered sinners to God who belong to him.
The commenter is splitting a hair here. She is right, BUT, and it’s a big BUT, Joyce Meyer has previously taught that once saved, Christians do NOT sin any more. They they are sinLESS. She has said she herself does not sin. Here is her quote:
Joyce Meyer said she is not a sinner: “I am not poor. I am not miserable, and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I were, and if I still was, then Jesus died in vain. I’m going to tell you something, folks. I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head. I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy, and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.” https://carm.org/preachers-and-teachers/joyce-meyer/
1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:19-20, 24 tell us we are saved from our past sin and declared righteous. But we still retain our sin nature and we still sin. That’s why James 5:16 says we need to confess our sins to each other.
More on this here: Are we Sinners or Saints?
So this good willed article to call out this woman only leads people astray and discouraged. And the others who can’t wait to be part of the problem to talk about others in this attack mode.
Key words here most undiscerning people use; lead astray, discourage, and mainly, ‘attack’. They call any discerning article an attack.
What the attack actually is, is the false teacher’s assault against Christ. Undiscerning people look horizontally, not upward vertically.
Not helpful. Really playing with fire here to call someone out like this to come to find out you were wrong and actually drive people further away from Christ.
They always say that discernment drives people away from Jesus. It doesn’t. Acts 5:14 is one example. After Ananias and Sapphira were KILLED by God, for their hypocrisy and lies, “more than ever” believers entered the church. Really? Didn’t the killing by God of two prominent believers “drive people away”? “And more than ever believers in the Lord were added to their number, multitudes of men and women,”
Why? Barnes’ Notes explains:
Were the more added – The effect of all these things was to increase the number of converts. Their persecutions, their preaching, and the judgment of God, “all” tended to impress the minds of the people, and to lead them to the Lord Jesus Christ. … Though the judgment of God had the effect of deterring hypocrites from entering the church – though it produced awe and caution, yet still the number of true converts was increased.
The commenter is just plain wrong.
Joyce is not God. She’s capable of human error and sin like anyone else. And I believe she has admitted errors where she has recognized them.
1.No one has said Joyce Meyer is God. Straw man fallacy alert.
2.No, Joyce hasn’t admitted errors. Because Joyce Meyer preaches to men, and that is an activity and an office denied to women. She actively and constantly rebels against scripture. This is her error.
Straw Man Fallacy: A straw man fallacy occurs when someone distorts or exaggerates another person’s argument, and then attacks the distorted version of the argument instead of genuinely engaging. (Source)
So those pharasee out there need to take it easy.
It would probably help her credibility if she spelled Pharisee correctly. But more than that, did you notice a glaring omission from the entire comment? Not one scripture. That is the main key. They do not reason over scriptures. Instead they throw shade, disdain, and attack the person who is promoting discernment. They have to. They don’t have a leg to stand on.
Consider if the person commenting to me or if you have received comments like this, if they are adhering to the following scriptures themselves. If not, aren’t THEY the hypocrite?
Keep your tongue from evil And your lips from speaking deceit. (Psalm 34:13).
Your speech must always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person. (Colossians 4:6).
Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear. (Ephesians 4:49).
And you know there are many more verses which guide us in how we should speak to one another. Most importantly, if you choose to engage with the person, don’t be drawn into a devolving conversation in which your witness will be blotted because of anger or ungracious speech.
Ladies, if or when you discuss a false teacher online, you most probably will receive comments like the one I shared. Or if you meet with elders to discuss a false activity in the church, you may well receive pushback. Hopefully not. But listen for those clichés. Have scripture ready. Keep reasoning over scripture, even if the person online or in real life accuses you with emotional or slanderous challenges. It isn’t YOU they are challenging, it’s Jesus IN you. (Matthew 5:10-12). They aren’t against you, so much, as they are FOR themselves.
